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 Bhutanese issue

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Posted on 08-08-10 7:23 PM     [Snapshot: 46]     Reply [Subscribe]
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"Here goes our tax money"

Posted on 08-09-10 4:39 AM     [Snapshot: 164]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Posted on 08-09-10 5:38 AM     [Snapshot: 173]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Why ask for discussion of subjects that you do not really want to discuss? The truth is very painful. And we all want to speak the pleasant truth and not face the unpleasant truth. The painful truth for Nepalese in general is more than many of us want to really face. That is why we come to sajha.com for light hearted jokes, comraderie, teasing each other and laughing.

Don't you think that Nepalese have become like Jews? Don't you think that we have become a people without a nation because our nation is a poverty-stricken mother who cannot afford to feed us? Don't you think it is painful to acknowledge that us Nepalese...scattered across the world, hoping to find a home are like street-children in Thamel--the so called "khate's" that people politely avoid seeing? 

Some people like the Jews didn't have a nation and so they suffered in other people's hands. In our case, we have a nation that could not feed us and so we have scattered into distant lands. Who ever will receive us, we go there. We are at the mercy of the nations that receive us. And this was the fate of the Nepalese taking refuge in Bhutan. Would it be too harsh to say that the Nepalese who went to Bhutan were treated like how the Jews were treated by the Nazis (before the holocaust began)? The Jews were ostracised and put down and treated like social lepers in Germany before Hitler formally came to power. The Nepalese in Bhutan were treated similarily.

Why do you want to bring such a painful subject up when you really have no intention of discussing it? You don't have the guts to face the truth. Why don't you tell a joke and make us all laugh instead? Your time would be better spent.

Posted on 08-09-10 12:23 PM     [Snapshot: 298]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Homeyji please do more research on jews situation and then compare them with Nepalese.

First of all Bhutanese refugees problem is United Nations and international community at its worst. This is a problem manifested by India's direct intervention (or overall control) in Bhutanese politics. Instead of diffusing these tensions, we are accepting the refugees. An elephant steps into a bucket full of water, the water spills. The temporary solution might be to contain the spilled water in another container but a good fix is to remove the elephant's foot.


Posted on 08-09-10 12:31 PM     [Snapshot: 304]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Are you saying the "Bhutanese refugees" are not really Nepalese refugees who went to Bhutan for work and ended up staying there, like many of us have gone "foreign" because of a lack of opportunity back home in Nepal? How are the Nepali refugees who went to Bhutan different from you or I (assuming you are no longer living in Nepal) and the millions of Nepalese who have gone to the Middle-East, Europe and the States...not to mention India?

Posted on 08-09-10 12:45 PM     [Snapshot: 328]     Reply [Subscribe]
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So you are assuming that all the bhutanese refugees are actually Nepalese who went there? I know 4-5 such refugees in US whose parents and grand parents all hail from Bhutan. They spoke good Nepali but they still were not or never a Nepali.
Posted on 08-09-10 1:01 PM     [Snapshot: 339]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Right. So because you met 4-5 refugees living in the US who are actually Bhutanese and not Nepali, we should ignore the fact that Nepal is a poverty stricken nation that banishes millions of its citizens abroad to be at the mercy of other nations. 

Call me arrogant but I'd like to think that there is a greater point that I'm making than just trying to win an argument for the sake of winning an argument.

But then maybe I'm just not as up to date on the news as you are:

Posted on 08-09-10 1:49 PM     [Snapshot: 381]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Read the topic and the question:

"What is your openion about resettlement program of Bhutanese refugee in different parts of the world? "

We are talking about Bhutanese. You started arguing that all Bhutanese refugees are Nepali and I told you it ain't so, now you are changing the topic to Nepali diaspora issue. You might have a "greater" point but that's not the point in discussion here and not the point I am making.There are other problems in Nepal too, you want to discuss them all here as well??

Posted on 08-09-10 2:16 PM     [Snapshot: 389]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Right. We can argue semantics all you want. I'm saying that it's a Nepali refugee problem that Nepalese cannot simply write off as a Bhutanese refugee problem to save face. How convenient.

Like I said in my first reply:
"Why ask for discussion of subjects that you do not really want to discuss? The truth is very painful. And we all want to speak the pleasant truth and not face the unpleasant truth. The painful truth for Nepalese in general is more than many of us want to really face. That is why we come to sajha.com for light hearted jokes, comraderie, teasing each other and laughing."

So I'm not surprized by your responses. It's the typical "Nepali politician" responses that fill our air waves. You've learn't well, Kiddo. We need more defenders of the nation like you. That's how we're going to improve Nepal. By saving its face no matter how ugly it looks.

Posted on 08-09-10 2:31 PM     [Snapshot: 402]     Reply [Subscribe]
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And by the way my country might be poor not just in economy but also in security, law-and-order etc etc, but do NOT blame her for Bhutanese refugee issues. Given the state of the country we have done our best to accomodate them. There have been mistakes but we certainly cannot starve our own just to make everybody else happy.

Bhutanese refugees are our daju bhais but the problem was created by Bhutan, not us.

Posted on 08-09-10 2:33 PM     [Snapshot: 410]     Reply [Subscribe]
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So let me summarize the point you’ve made so far:


What Kiddo is in essence saying is that the Bhutanese problem has nothing to do with Nepal or Nepalese. No, like most of Nepal’s problems that Nepalese don’t have the ability to take responsibility for, here is one more problem that we need to find a way to blame someone else for instead of taking responsibility. So let’s blame it on the United Nations. Let’s blame it on India.


And if Kiddo can’t find anything else to make his point, he pulls the lamest move of pointing at the topic. Anything to defend his weak arguments.


After all, we are beggarly victims of a Nation, Nepal, who lives off of the donation of the rest of the world. How could we possibly hold ourselves responsible for this? No. Let’s find a way to pin this on someone else. So whether we can find a little exception like finding 4-5 Bhutanese who are not Nepali or whatever, Kiddo is desperate to shirk responsibility for Nepal needing to take responsibility for her people. Clap, clap, clap. Way to go, Kiddo.



Posted on 08-09-10 2:52 PM     [Snapshot: 419]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Anytime a person tries to summarize an opposing view he/she will unmistakenly exaggerate and give a totally different conclusion. On that note, let me summarize your argument then: The Bhutanese refugees issue is all because of Nepal and Nepal only. Why not also claim that Nepal attacked Bhutan and those refugees got displaced? Or better yet, we meddled in their politics and taught them how to revolt!!


So what do you want Nepal to do here? Bhutan migration occurred decades and decades ago (primarily when they were constructing a long highway around 60s and Bhutan House settlement in early 1900s). Mixed with those Nepalese were some indian origin immigrants. However, Bhutan has single handedly targeted refugees of Nepali origin. Nepal has tried to involve Bhutan and India on bilateral discussion but to no avail. US has agreed to help by taking some of those refugees. We could always do more on settlement of those people but tell me are we in a situation of stability to afford such planned settlement?


Read below for what we have done and if you still think we caused this issue. If you still think we did, then I have nothing else to say:




Posted on 08-09-10 3:15 PM     [Snapshot: 427]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Call me naive, but somehow I was hoping that our discussion would go more like this:

Homeyji: Nepalese are getting hurt because our nation, Nepal, is weak.

Kiddo: Hmm. You're right Homeyji, I wonder what we could do about it.

Homeyji: I'm glad you're being solution oriented Kiddo. I know it's not just about what one person could do. Perhaps the first thing is for us to atleast agree on the nature of the problem that most Nepalese are suffering from. After all, if even "educated" people like you can't have a civil conversation, what could we possibly expect from the "uneducated?"

Kiddo: Homeyji, do you think we as Nepalese have the humility to discuss these problems without feeling nervous and embarressed and defensive?

Homeyji: Yes Kiddo, I do. I have a lot of faith in the Nepali population. Don't you?

Kiddo: Yes, I suppose you're right. I do too.

.....And so on and so forth.

Posted on 08-09-10 3:29 PM     [Snapshot: 455]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Ok ok, you're right.

भो अब?

Posted on 08-09-10 3:39 PM     [Snapshot: 460]     Reply [Subscribe]
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So now that we're friends (or hopefully trying to be) I want to apologize to you if I offended you in anyway. That was not my intention. It is just that I want to have a real conversation that is in our common interest of helping Nepal. And on sajha.com I don't see many productive conversations. It is pretty sad and disgusting what goes on here, considering Nepal's condition. If we can't even set aside our petty differences to talk about Nepal's interest, how can we ask the politicians to?

So now that we are trying to be on the same page, I'd love to hear your take about the nature of the problem and maybe even some ideas on solutions you have. You seem pretty well read.  


Posted on 08-09-10 3:50 PM     [Snapshot: 469]     Reply [Subscribe]
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just wanted to ask about Burmese Nepalese. why did they go there and why were some coming back to Nepal?

Posted on 08-09-10 4:36 PM     [Snapshot: 466]     Reply [Subscribe]
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कताको कुरो कता लग्या छ छ । Bhutanese refugee को कुरो गर्या हो कि नेपाली पोलिटिकस हो?

I have read somewhere that Bhutan is also a country of immigrants. The Dzonkha speakers settled there migrating from Tibet in about 500 to 300 years ago. Present ruling class Bhutanese are relatively new Dzonkha immigrants. The Khas speakers or "Bhutanese Nepali" people migrated there only in early 20th century.

The Nepalese brought to Bhutan in early 16th century is often mentioned as the beginning of Nepali immigrants in Bhutan. But, it does not seem to be relevant with the present "Bhutani Nepali" crisis because that early-immigrants used to speak "Newar" not "Nepali". I do not know what happened to them. Did they merge with "Dzonkha" or "Nepali" or remain a separate tiny group within Bhutan?

The Dzonkha speakers wanted control over "Nepali" speakers because they were concerned to the  the isolation and lack of cultural integration between Dzonkha speakers and "Nepali" speakers in Bhutan.

"By the 1980s, the (Bhutanese) government had become acutely conscious not just of
widespread illegal immigration of people of Nepali origin into Bhutan,
but also of the total lack of integration even of long-term immigrants
into the political and cultural mainstream of the country. Most of the
immigrants knew very little of the culture of Bhutan and most could not understand any one of the local languages including Dzongkha.
In the rural areas they remained so 'Nepalese' in their culture they
were indistinguishable from the Nepalese in Nepal itself. " (source: wikipedia)

This is the main problem. If you migrate in mass, and try not to integrate within the local community, they will certainly be conscious. If they feel a risk, then they will try to chase you out because they are there before you.

So, I consider that the Bhutanese problem is not a political problem, its a social problem, and it is the problem caused by the lack of respect to local inhabitants, which is a kind of arrogance. Sad to mention it here, the Khas speaking community has that sort of arrogance, and if that continues, they will have similar problem in many others parts of the world where they migrate in a sizable number.

Posted on 08-09-10 10:02 PM     [Snapshot: 547]     Reply [Subscribe]
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I completely agree with you. And if you read Germany's history, you will see that the Jews, before the holocaust, had the exact same problem. The Jews felt the need to rely on each other in whatever nation they found themselves. They were like the gypsies who were constantly moving. So they could not rely on the host culture because they did not know when they would have to get up and move again. The Jews, like the Khas, invested in their own instead of the host nation. And many German's felt threatened by that. They felt that the Jews were being unpatriotic to Germany. At least that was the propoganda. The Jews were painted as parasites coming to suck on the host nation for their own gain at the expense of the nation itself. That is exactly how the Khas people are being painted in Bhutan.

Do you disagree?


Posted on 08-09-10 10:16 PM     [Snapshot: 543]     Reply [Subscribe]
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"If you migrate in mass, and try not to integrate within the local community, they will certainly be conscious. If they feel a risk, then they will try to chase you out because they are there before you."

Samarthanji, I have quoted your openoin above, There is yet no strong evidence of migration of Nepalese to Bhutan,neverthless when we ask senior people they still say nepalese were taken by Bhutan govt(Spiritual ruler Zabdrung Nawang  Namgyel)doing  treaty at the time of Ram Saha regime?The same people were evicted by other immigrant From Tibet who were illegal migrants.It is a very sad story of Bhutanese people, that other illegal immigrants after commig into power  they evicted the legal emmigrants. The fate less bhutanese who  came to nepal , their former home land  could not get same right as other  Nepalese  even after 18  years.Unwillingly despite the effort to return back to country they were compalled to opt third country resettlement program. I am a bhutanese, I feel pain when i went through your comment  upon the topic.It seems like you are aggresive towards Bhutanese people, U represented some nepalese people who contineously hated  these people insted of giving support,

U have never given us the feastful rice, still u dont have to,  but u can do little favour for them  just support them to raise their issue  and make it world wide and build a pressure upon Bhutan.Be sympathetic to us, u may not be because u are never been exiled, spend  life under  leaking plastic roof  and were stiched clothes.Once go and see the refugee camp in Jhapa and Morang and only u can write critical comment ?other wise please dont write whatever comes in your mind ..... 


Posted on 08-09-10 10:19 PM     [Snapshot: 561]     Reply [Subscribe]
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I dont want to say anything because your brain is not working(dimag kharab)u can write whatever u like coz u dont have sense,i dont mind for ur comment

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