What was billed as a definitive 5-party Andolan (which was a subject of a number of Sajha discussions) at Ratna Park has petered out completely.


*****

In Nepal and among Nepali societies, there often is a lot of enthusiasm and support
to START something, but not much enthusiasm, support and persistence to carry
such work to success ONCE it gets started.

Then again, especially in failures, lessons can be learnt.

And so, my questions to the netas:

a) What went wrong with the five-party Andolan that it appears to be in such a disarray?

b) What didn't work to make the Andolan a success on your own collective terms?

c) How and why did agreement among yourselves break down?

d) How would you avoid such mistakes in future so that you achieve the goals you set out for?

e) What do you tell your 1000s of supporters WHEN they ask you why the Andolan lost steam? Would you blame your own leadership for failing to think things through or simply blame others?

f) What's your next move?

oohi
ashu

The above posting was taken from:

www.martinchautari.org.np

**************************

Martin Chautari in KathmanduIdeas unlimited and thoughts unrestrained
By C K. L A L

Bengalis have their addas. There they gather, like-minded Bengalis, to discuss the relevance of Marx, the writings of Jean-Paul Sartre, deterioration in the quality of education, the poetry of Kamala Das or the horses of M. F. Hussain. Majlis of Awadhis less eclectic, but no less spirited - the role of religion in society can be quite engrossing. This ýCoffee Houseý culture was a new name for an ancient habit of us Homo Sapiens.We like to gossip, exchange views, share ideas, and simply let words flow in a congenialatmosphere.

That is what chat rooms attempt to recreate in the virtual world of Cyberia.But Cyberia lacks the warmth of real life. It is cold out there; anonymity of the Internet failsto connect us with each other.For women, it used to be the village pond, the community well, or the lonely tree at the edge of the forest where they rested with their load of fodder or firewood.

For men ,it was invariably the banyan tree, usually near a temple or school. Village elders would gather there to resolve issues of common concern, wonder at the pace of changing times,or merely gossip. In the hills of Nepal, such a tree, often with a raised platform, is called a chautari.

The more prosperous and aware the village, the higher the number of chautaris in it. But everyvillage would have at least one. Then came the teashops and the bhattis - shops selling rice-wine and the cheap edibles that go with it. These took away some of the regulars from thechautaris. But it was the radio, and television to a certain extent, which drove the last nailinto the coffin of chautari culture. There still are many functional chautaris in the countryside of Nepal, but they arenýtused as extensively as they used to be.

These days, people gather at local teashops, bhat-tis, or the offices of various political parties. Does this decline in the popularity of chautaris have something to do with increasing intolerance in Nepali society?

Difficult to say, but thefact is that people have less time, and even less inclination, to listen to the views that arenýtin consonance with their own.Kathmandu may be called a metropolitan city, but it carries the burden of being thecapital of a primarily rural nation-sate. Close to nine-tenths of Nepalýs population still lives invillages, without complaint.

Unfortunately, there are very few places in Kathmandu whereone can express oneýs outlandish ideas or cranky thoughts without the fear of being ridiculed or worse. But then Kathmandu does have Martin Chautari, hereafter the Chautari, and thank God for that.

Entering the Public Domain

To give you a taste of the action, see what happened during one typical discussion. On 9 January 2001, second Tuesday of the month, the topic at Chautari was Darjeeling-basedwriter Indra Bahadur Raiýs path-breaking Nepali novel, Aaj Ramita Chha. A rough translationof the bookýs title would be, Today is Interesting, in the sense of the Chinese curse, ýMay you live in interesting timesý.The discussion was kicked off by Sangita, a working mother who had ploughedthrough the book with some effort.

Her remark was forthright and unpretentious, ýThe book ambles without a beginning and an endý. Her judgment even more blunt, ýItýs a difficult readý. That is what any reader uninitiated in the nuances of high-literature feels while read-ing classics, but very few have the courage to accept it.

Sangita did, and got an apprecia-tive nod from other participants facing a similar dilemma.The second reader to comment on the book was Ashutosh, a Harvard graduate and an activist. His suggestion, ýRead the book twice to appreciate the slice of life that itserves.ý After that, an animated discussion for over an hour engaged ex-ambassador andlinguist Nobel Kishor Rai, novelist Khagendra Sangraula, poet-satirist Bimal Nibha, writer-commentator Narayan Dhakal, writer-commentator Basant Thapa, novelist Manjushree Thapa and a group of young students in awe of the ýcubistý image of Indra Bahadur Rai.

Discussions over, those participants who wanted to contribute to tea-kitty, Nepali rupeesten each, did so and went their separate ways - contented, and perhaps, enlightened. Mostof them will come back for another Mangalbare - the discussion every Tuesday at Chautari.Topics for discussion vary. From property rights for women to the lack of trust laws inNepal, from the predicament of people of the Nepal Terai to the status of women in Vedicliterature, and from the threat to democracy to the vibrancy of the press--any topic that isof interest to anyone, which means anything, can be taken up for discussion at Chautari.The procedure is simple.

The program for the month is fixed in advance, and circulatedthrough e-mail, photocopies and word-of-mouth. The main speaker - the pundit in Chautari-speak - presents his views for about half-an-hour. After that, it is a free-for-all. Anyone witha view can be an expert commentator or an interrogator. Questions and comments flow forone-and-half hours. Sometimes it can go on even longer. This is the Chautari then - an informal platform for a free flow of ideas.By its very nature, Chautari has no hierarchy.

As one of Chautariýs convenors Pratyoush Onta asserts, ýChautari disagrees with the tradition of an elite speaking from the pulpit toan audience of lesser mortals listening respectfully. It is a forum for dialogue, or even poly-logue, if such a thing is possible.ýThat, in essence, is the mission statement of sorts - formally not declared, but uni-versally accepted by all those who frequent Chautari. Here, Doctors of Philosophy and learn-ers for life are equally patient in observing the many splendours of truth. ýI am right, youare also right. I may be wrong, so could you. Let us think, listen, speak and re-think. Let ustogether develop a culture of communicationý. Deceptively simple, exceedingly challenging, and one hell of a good time - this business of the exploration of the mind.It is this simplicity that has seen Chautari grow from its humble beginnings in October.

1991 when water-resources engineer Bikash Pandey, Norwegian engineer Odd Hoftun andhis Nepal-born political scientist son Martin initiated a fortnightly discussion forum onýDevelopment Philosophyý. When Martin died in a plane-crash in July 1992 on his way backto Nepal from Oxford where he was a student, Odd Hoftun made available a space for the discussion forum to continue.

Since April 1995, it has come to be called Martin Chautari.Today, Chautari is run by its members - a committed mix of idealistic activists, jour-nalists, writers, commentators and students. Though Chautari itself continues to remainwithin the world of the word - spoken and written, its members have notched up remarkablesuccesses in social activism. Recently, it functioned as the focal point of a movement forthe emancipation of bonded agriculture labour in the western part of the country.

Earlier,Chautari members spearheaded the campaign to oust diesel three-wheelers from theKathmandu Valley and succeeded where better funded NGOs and INGOs had failed to makea dent. On several controversial issues, Chautari is the first place where non-conformistideas are expressed and discussed.After a decade of its lively existence, Chautari is engaged in reassessing itself at themoment. In an internal document floated for discussion, Ashutosh observes without hesitation, ýChautariýs flagship program - Mangalbare - is both a success and an anomalyý.

Agrees Pratyoush Onta, ýEven though it is exceedingly successful on its own, its failure to replicateitself in Kathmandu as well as elsewhere in Nepal needs serious attentioný. Though such retrospection is commendable, the charitable view could be that it is indeed lonely at thetop. The kind of commitment required to run such a stimulating forum of discussion is notvery common everywhere. It is even less so in a society like Nepal where intellectuals donot consider themselves ýlearnersý, but take themselves very seriously as interpreters ofdivine wisdom. But Chautari has ignited a change.

The ideas propounded by Chautari - of tolerance,respect for the other, and the freedom of thought and speech without the fear of ridicule -remain with whoever comes into contact with it. How many institutions can claim to haveinitiated a culture, and then sustained it for over a decade, by sticking to their undeclaredmission? Call it modesty, but success seems to sit lightly on the members of Chautari.

They laugh and call it the reward of a job well done for its own sake. It is this nonchalance thatmakes Chautari what it is - a live chat-room. Forget its Internet versions for now. In a coun-try of twenty three million people, Nepal only has about three hundred thousand phone lines,fifty thousand computers, and less than thirty thousand Internet connections.

Face-to-face encounters are still the most effective channel of communication, and for that, chautaris are still relevant, even important. Chautari keeps the Socratic tradition alive in a city that is increasingly acquiring the impersonality of a metropolis without fully acquiring its urbanity. This in itself is somethingto celebrate.

Are the Mangalbarey discussions still going on? If yes, what are the sources of information on the topics being discussed etc. etc. for potentially interested but uninitiated individuals who are not in the "word of the mouth" network?

Checked the website. It hasn't been updated in a while. If there's an email circulation list through which logistical details are circulated, I'd love to be a part of it.

Thanks.

Hi Ashu:

You so called learnt-foolish don't talk straight. What you meant by saying following is, Martin Chautari finally became the "Magi Khane Bhando".

In 1995, this discussion group came under the management of Centre for Social Research and Development, a registered NGO (Kathmandu DAO No. 285/051/052), adopting the name Martin Chautari, after late Martin Hoftun, one of the founders of the discussion group. Managed in a cooperative style, Chautari began to hold weekly discussions, and to expand its work into research and advocacy, and other activities to enhance the quality of public discourse in Nepal. In 2002 Chautari became a non-government organization in its own right

Dharma Sankat,

In all fairness and neutrality, I have not seen any evidence to deternine that Martin Chautari has become anyone's "Magi Khane Bhando." And I am NOT even a member there! [These days, I just go there from time to time to take part in some
discussions.]

But, hey, you are welcome to speculate otherwise, and think less of MC.
That's fine.
Good luck.

**********

As the axioim goes, in Nepal and among Nepali socities, one proof that you are doing good work is how much anonymous criticism and gaali you can attract. The better you do, the more the gaali . . . and that's life.

Brook, to be on MC'e mailing list, send an email to Bhaskar Gautam at chautari@mos.com.np

oohi
ashu

Ashu,

you are 100% right. when you write:

"As the axioim goes, in Nepal and among Nepali socities, one proof that you are doing good work is how much anonymous criticism and gaali you can attract. The better you do, the more the gaali . . . and that's life".

Its not only in Nepali societies, but, all around the world. In other societies,
don't try to be a starter(starting to pour venom at the beginning, e.g. Iraq
war issue in USA), but, in underdeveloped (economically) societies, peoples
see failure, cheating and open looting by government officers and biz houses,
thus, peoples are so frustrated that they start from -ve and end up on
realizing that "there are some very rare good peoples". So, don't get
surprise with that trend, and don't blame it to Nepali society, being lone
society to criticize like that.

GP

GP-ji,

As always, you are right about that trait being universal.
I stand corrected.

oohi
ashu

In all fairness and neutrality, I have not seen any evidence to deternine that Martin Chautari has become anyone's "Magi Khane Bhando." And I am NOT even a member there! [These days, I just go there from time to time to take part in some
discussions.]

Sorry Ashu, I thought you are one of them the way you were backing up Martin Chautari. So you do not know what's really there inside. You simply assumed.

Go there next time for the discussion, and raise the hell and ask them to change the name 'Martin' to something like 'Adda' the way Begali babus did.

THE TRAIT OF A GREAT LEADER FOR GAA MUST KNOW FOUR CAUSES

These are four great causes which influence our personal life and health:

1. Nature (heredity or constitution)

2. Nurture (society or culture)

3. Personal action and

4. God (or the overall cause)

We believe that in the past untold harm has been done to people through one sided, incomplete and distorted views of the causes at work on them.

Consequently, in the GROW Movement we aim to promote a whole picture in view and to promote a whole work.

n other words, while doing the part that depends mainly on ourselves-self-activation through mutual help-we seek to co-ordinate our efforts with those of other helpers in the community who know more about the other causes than we do (notably- doctors, relgious GURUs, educators and social workers are absent at Martin Chautari and is taken over by free riders and those who are opportunists).

* If you don't live the way you think is right you'll endup thinking you're living right.

* If you need help, help others. To help others best, let them help you.

Ashu, if I tell you, why youare showing off as an intellectuals.. you will say No I am not.

But i would ask, why you pretend like you are an intellectual? Are you? Or are you not?

Dharma Sankat,

Whatever, yaar.
Suit yourself with any labels about me.
That's fine.

From angrily denouncing Martin Chautari for the name it has (without understanding
the history behind that particular name) to impugning MC's work as some kind of magi khanay bhando to calling me this or that . . .

Like I said, whatever!!

I enjoy sharing information and discussing ideas here.
If you have a problem with that, then save yourself some grief and exercise your right by STOP reading my postings. It's as simple as that. I certainly don't sit around worrying whether I am this or that.

Now, should we expect you to jump up and down in anger, stamp your feet and smash some cups and call other people names to calm yourself? Like I sad, go ahead.

*************

On another note, Sushil Koirala, the NC's de facto leader, had the Gagan Thapa-led youth wing of NC dissolved, and declared it null and void and replaced it with his own chamchas.

So much for Nepali Congress (Girija's) commitment to democracy!!

oohi
ashu

On balance, Dharma Sankatji a non-profit organisation like MC must also have organisational behaviour consisting consumer/customer satisfaction to all its stake holders just like you. Why? Because, they are the kings of the market based economy. Why? Because, Resources Based View of the Firm Theory proposes that even NGO, QUANGO and much more should increase its quality incrementally Just-In- Time and all the time to be the best over its competitors. Why? Because, this way it can leverage its core competencies and capabilities in its value chain vertically and horizontally as its sustainable distinctive advantage or sustainable comparative advantage in returning above average returns. No!

Otherwise, Brahminical Hinduism led economic implications are:

Maz Weber, who is famous for expounding on the Protestant work ethic, also argued that the ascetic principles embedded in Hinduism do not encourage the kind of entrepreneurial activity in pursuit of wealth creation that we find in Protestantism (the influence of Catholicism via Society Of Jesus in Nepal is even worse). According to Weber, traditional Hindu values emphasise that individuals should not be judged by material achievements, but by their spiritual achievements (like giving lots to the Brahmins administrators or board of trustees like MC). Hindus perceive the pursuit of material well-being as making the attainment of nirvana more difficult. Given the emphasis on the ascetic lifestyle, Weber thought that devout Hindus would be less likely to engage in enterpreneurial activity than devout Protestants, followers or Mahavira Bardhawan (Jains) and followers of Zorastrians and Ahura Mazda (Pharsis).

Mahatama Gandhi, the famous Indian nationalist and spiritual leader, was certainly the embodiment of Hindu asceticism (and MC is highly influenced by him in theory), It has been argued that the values of Hiduism in Nepal (i.e. Brahiminical Jogi, Puri, Jiri and Bharati Thars) based asceticism and self-reliance (Bhik Magne Pratha) that Gandhi advocated (He like munaka anar grown and donated to him by Banglore rich Jamindars, he loved Johnny apples donated to him by Kashmiris, young cousin and girls donated their time to sleep with him in bed and much more) had a negative impact on the economic development of post-independence India. But one must be careful not to read too much into Weber's arguments. Today, millions of hardworking emtrepreneurs form the economic backbone of India's growing economy. Unfortunately, the dark and evil forces of Brahiminical Jajamani Pratha lurches in India and Nepal through the cancerous caste system....

We must fight them in the forest, in the valleys, in the mountains, in the NGOs, in the government, in all nooks and crannies of Nepali nationhood....We should ask for these tools being products, prices, promotions, places, people, processes and physical evidence to show progress....

Otherwise, our Nepali national development will remain stultified.

Thus let us start marketing for peace, progress and piping hot hot market based democracy for Nepal and Nepalese NGOs and QUANGOS and much more and let them be ever learning organisations bereft of magne Bahuns.

What do you think?

Oooh, I got a brilliant idea, dudes! See, I waz feelin' really bad about poor darshanka's heartbreak tragedies and tryin' to find a good way to cheer him up. So I thought that once he took his own advise, accepted his true self and came out to play, I'd throw him a party. Since darshanka already hangs with a cute gang of sistaz in dharma sankat, prem dai, and pushkar samarthak, it will be easy and a blast, dudes!

Let me introduce da Nepali Village People! Darshanka could be the construction worker, dharmay could be the cowboy, prem dai will be dahling as the biker, and this new Nepali tara dudette, a thuggish cutie who talks a lot of anal bullishit, will be smashing as the policeman, meow! They can all sing Macho Man or YMCA to their hearts content. Or if that is too conservative they can go drag and do "We are family (I got all my sistaz wid me)". after the party, darshanka will make his grand "status change" announcement and retire his name to "khusiyali". No more "fear and suspicion" for him, bichara, no more seething over heartbreaks. Ki kaso?

Okay, can da new Nepali Village People come out now and post their naughty, naughty sweet nothings here. I'm kinda bored, meow!

Dear Real Cutie American Meowchi Pie,

So you kinda wanna be Nepe village MC Neat Netaneatz! Good O WONDER BRA that is half Indian Bhogi Jogi Gulabjamun Mukhe and half ummm Amrikan Kuire cat Kat Meow mukhe drag Queenie. Good luck to your great over fertile child non production pea meow hare brain.

By the way I luv collecting Meowchi, Feowchi, Asuchi, and many chi toys when I go eating da McFood that is not kooked by kukoo Mcbajes as they sometime accuse me mua as being the REAL EBAJE. No! My accuser remain the real McThado_Buungee_Jumper_with_Thadi_Etupi_McBaje. No!.

Mahatama Gandhi, the famous Indian nationalist and spiritual leader, was certainly the embodiment of Hindu asceticism (and MC is highly influenced by him in theory), It has been argued that the values of Hiduism in Nepal (i.e. Brahiminical Jogi, Puri, Jiri and Bharati Thars) based asceticism and self-reliance (Bhik Magne Pratha) that Gandhi advocated (He like munaka anar grown and donated to him by Banglore rich Jamindars, he loved Johnny apples donated to him by Kashmiris, young cousin and girls donated their time to sleep with him in bed and much more) had a negative impact on the economic development of post-independence India. But one must be careful not to read too much into Weber's arguments. Today, millions of hardworking emtrepreneurs form the economic backbone of India's growing economy. Unfortunately, the dark and evil forces of Brahiminical Jajamani Pratha lurches in India and Nepal through the cancerous caste system....

YOU MORON, NEPALTARA,YOUR NAME SHOULD BE CHANGED TO NEPALKALANKA,

Gandhi shared his bed with Manu his grand-niece, the child whom he had brought up with motherly love, what's so immoral about it? A mother sleeps with her child, does it evoke sexual passion between them?

And, Gandhi, the embodiment of virtue belongs to the world not only to India alone. Like Buddha and Christ he will be revered till the end of humanity.

"Mahatama Gandhi, the famous Indian nationalist and spiritual leader, was certainly the embodiment of Hindu asceticism (and MC is highly influenced by him in theory), It has been argued that the values of Hiduism in Nepal (i.e. Brahiminical Jogi, Puri, Jiri and Bharati Thars) based asceticism and self-reliance (Bhik Magne Pratha) that Gandhi advocated (He like munaka anar grown and donated to him by Banglore rich Jamindars, he loved Johnny apples donated to him by Kashmiris, young cousin and girls donated their time to sleep with him in bed and much more) had a negative impact on the economic development of post-independence India. But one must be careful not to read too much into Weber's arguments. Today, millions of hardworking emtrepreneurs form the economic backbone of India's growing economy. Unfortunately, the dark and evil forces of Brahiminical Jajamani Pratha lurches in India and Nepal through the cancerous caste system " - NEPALKALANKA555

YOU MORON, NEPALTARA,YOUR NAME SHOULD BE CHANGED TO NEPALKALANKA,

Gandhi shared his bed with Manu his grand-niece, the child whom he had brought up with motherly love, what's so immoral about it? A mother sleeps with her child, does it evoke sexual passion between them?

And, Gandhi, the embodiment of virtue belongs to the world not only to India alone. Like Buddha and Christ he will be revered till the end of

dharma_sankat GURU ,
WHAT ARE THE CRITERIAS THAT A PERSON NEED TO POSSESS TO BE KNOWN AS AN INTALLACTUAL?

yours novice chela GARIB

POOR COMMONER

Where did you learn to spell English so poorly as your spelling is not common to real English. Why spell intelectual as inteletual?

Why should a common Hindu FAKIR sleep with his Manu? Why should a naked Hindu FcukIR need another human body of the opposite sex and that is my oxymoron and you spelt again incorrectly? Why? Why? Why?

The criterion of the intellectual: GARIB outside (materialism) and DHANI inside (wholesomeness).

Think deep (not twice) before anyone comment on above.

To be called an intellectual one has to possess both stuffs GARIB outside (materialism) and DHANI inside (wholesomeness). Do you mean by discarding materialistic benefits, sense pleasures and opulence (GARIB OUTSIDE) one becomes DHANI inside?