[This posting flagged as inappropriate]

Nepe Bro: Will you share the presentation with rest of us who would not be going to the convention?

Thanks a lot brother for bringing this into consideration here in sajha. I am sad that i cannot attend the convention but therein i would like you to highly define my concern that "without law and order our nation cannot survive".

NN,

Yes, I intend to.

I will do it after the convention. Thanks for your interest, NN.

Nepe

· Why is the idea of “ethnic federalism” bad for Nepal ?

Is it possible to adapt an acceptable ethnic federalism for Nepal  (Good)? Just my curiosity.

I agree with newlynew.

CL,

Thanks for the question. Here is a slide from my presentation that partially answers your question.

Nepe

 

It's no longer a secret that ethnicity based Federalism wasthe Maoist tactic to recruit the marginalized people of the society. I don't think I have to wait till Nepe's presentation to understand why it is a bad idea. I am though looking forward to his good ideas about the way forward.

Thanks Nepe Jyu,

I wish I could attend your presentation to have a whole picture.

I understand people led autonomy for the people belong to the similar community appropriate to their existing environment if political manipulation is excluded from the main strategy, but not the division of the country into many countries.

Thanks,

CL

Sorry there was no intention to mark NN”s comment this way. In fact, his or her is commendable remark.

KishneBro: Even if you did, I would fully respect your views. We must understand that everyone is entitled to have an opinion and these opinions would more than likely be different. If we can do that without calling each other names (eg. Bheda), we would make this a better place.

In my opinion, federalism is another maoist trap for the elimination of Nepal from the world map. Federalism as I see is nothing but DIVISION. Federalism or the division of Nepal into tiny states requires to be based on some factors. What these factors are going to be? Ethnicity? - as you all said, absolutely not; geography - aha, here comes our intolerable madhesh state. When even existing institutions can't even cooperate with each other; the perfect examples being the lack of coordination among ministries, the next we're going to see is the war among all those tiny states. Didn't we just witness the shut down of power plants and telephone lines as a war to control stakes? Didn't we see the locals near the powerplant demanding their town should have 24 hour electricity during load shedding? The federalism is nothing but to create CHAOS and CHAOS. The idea of federalism drives everyone to be SELFISH and teaches everyone to put their self-interest (name it as ethnicity or geography) above the nation's interest.

Maoists already pushed our country 100-200 years behind; now this federalism will push down the country down the hill forever.

Federalism will create more and more bloody politics. The LEAST thing we need is to create more platform for politics.

Ethnicity based federalism i think is a bad idea , how are you going to do it, say you divide nepal into states accoring to the majority of people living in the are,what about the rights of th eminorities there ?? or are you going to ask them to move on to a different state ? and what about minories what don't have a a majority in any geographical areas ? what about their right? or are you going to divide nepal into 50 states ??? let say you do achieve some kind of division , what about future growth say people in teri states grow in population and spill over in different or ar eyou goig to restrict their movement?

The whole idea does not sound logical, Division should not be according to race, religion or ethnicity, it should be according to political and geographical location , with representation of all sects in federal govt.

 

My two cents...

 

NN,

You are right. But Maoist was not alone to promote the idea of “ethnic federalism” (or if we get to the fundamentals , “ethnic fundamentalism”). Ethnic elites and NGOs have also contributed equally.

It is very interesting to see how three totally different camps could converse to a common point to create and promote a fundamentalist ethnic discourse in Nepal.

Another interesting development is that ethnic fundamentalist are not relying on Maoist anymore and are asserting themselves. And Maoist is clueless about what to do., which you can see in their internal conflict (Baburam Bhattarai against ethnic federalism and Dev Gurung firmly for ethnic federalism, for example). How they resolve it would be interesting and extremely consequential for Nepal.

 

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Sambhu,

Division of the land along ethnic lines is not only a bad idea, but simply an impossible idea.

Here is map showing the distribution of Kami group. VDCs with less than 10% population has been ignored.

 

 

Now, a challenge to ethnic federalists is this- where do you draw a “Kami state” ?

The two more concentrated areas in the west that you can see belong to “Khas state” (Remote west) and “Magar state” (west). The areas in the east belong to “Tamang state”, “Rai state” and “Limbu state”.

So where can Kamis have their state ? In the sky ?

Don’t laugh, but that’s exactly what one ethnic federalist scholar tells as the answer. “Non-territorial state” (a state in the sky) is his answer.

Do you think Kamis will be happy with that ? Even if they are happy now, what if they wanted a “territorial state” in future ?

When asked the same scholar has this answer – well, the ethnic division does not have to be permanently rigid. Depending on who fight with whom and for what in future, an ethnic state can be divided further.

Can you imagine what we are getting into ?

A uncontrollable chain reaction type of never ending multi-ethnic conflict.

The madness is mind-numbing.

 

Nepe  

His attitude of “I know best” typically defines Nepe for what he is, an arch bahunista, who fights tooth and nail anything that remotely challenges the stranglehold his kind have had on Nepal with the all the sickening results they have to show for it. Before I am accused of personalising things, it’s interesting how he chooses to pick on “Kamis” in his hurry to bad mouth ethnic federalism. It’s people like Nepe who conveniently forget to tell you that it’s only their definition of ethnic federalism that is exclusive. We know why that is, don’t we? At the end of the day defeatists like Nepe just have to settle for what they are – losers. If you really have the guts, try doing your presentation in Nepal not at some fancy dress party in the US of A. As for all his scare tactics that has become so tiresome, the sky did not fall with the end of the monarchy and Nepal will not implode because Nepe says so.

Nepe,

Who the F!!k made the NFDIN ACT 2002? You, your father and your sick uncles?

Where are Managis and the Tangbotens? They are not Bhotes. If Sherpa gets on the list as NOT being Bhote, then you need to learn more about Nepali ethnicity. Your list is a BS.

If you want to include Bengali and Punjabi on the list, then why not the whole F!!king world. What about the Somalis who have arrived in Nepal recently? Mind you, it is racist to exclude a black skin on the list, at least in the West. They are a very powerful race too. Do you want to get "Al Sharpton" all over your ass?

Your agenda is nothing but a way to divide us even further. There are better things to worry about Nepal than to point out and spell all the ethnic tribes. There is no end to this. Guys, stay away.

I hope your convention breaks into chaos and you get shoes smacked on your face.

it is very funny to ready that sum ppl living in US who saw black n white issues, knew its history tends to think n implement same as in nepal.  the issues of ethnic disparities in nepal, even mentioning the plight, problems n possible not obsulete solution seems racist, anti nationalist, seperatist, etc etc. meanwhile they r fully aware of the modern nepalese history, it does not even surpass 300 years n here communities hav civilization that exceeds more than thousands  years with distinct characters n social norms hwo hav been sidelined from national mainstream. maoists found the platform to prove thier transforability away from status quo n used these issues not created it to glorify thier revolution to whcih they were sucessful both in gaianing military strenght n political intellects too. superficial understanding of ethnic federislm is that only the respective ethnic gets state priviledges n becomes sort of a rulers as was in pre unified nepal era. actually more hav to b done to resolve these problems rather than pretend theres nothing wrong n sweep it under the carpet, theres no guarantee that it will blow out in future again violently. i believe now is the time to make things right. 

Syagjali Magar, Bob Marley and yakthung_laje,

Some misunderstood parts and high emotions aside, you have brought some serious and complex issues here. Let me share my views.

1. a. Who the f_k made NFDIN Act 2002 ?

National Foundation of Development of Indigenous Nationalities

आदिवासी जनजाती उत्थान राष्ट्रिय प्रतिष्ठान

http://67.148.94.48/~nfdingo/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=79

 

1.b. Where is Managis and the Tangbotens ?

NFDIN को सूची incomplete भएको कुरालाई सबैले स्वीकार गर्दछन् । थुप्रै independent researchers र सरकारले नै गरेको अलग्गै जनगणनामा जातजातीहरुको संख्या 100 भन्दा बढी देखिएको छ । त्यसैले ढुक्क भए हुन्छ, सबै जातजातीहरु र तिनीहरुको branches (anthropological or otherwise) समेत गणना भएको छ, सरकारी वा academic record मा ।

Your question also opens up another very interesting and important dimension of ethnic discourse, which to tell you the truth, contemporary ethnic federalists are trying to suppress. र त्यो के हो भने कुनै जात वा जाती भित्र भएको sub-identity diversity (थर, थरी वा गोत्रको रुपमा रहेको)।

उदाहरणको लागि म आफै लिउँ । मेरो थर ‘खडका’ र थरी चाही ‘लकाईं’ । मैले अनुभव गर्ने kinship भनेको ‘लकाईं खडका’ संग मात्र हो । अरु थरीका ‘खडका’ हरुसंग म kinship होईन distance अनुभव गर्छु (मैले psychological/biological कुरा गर्‍या है, political कुरा गर्‍या हैन ) । अनि छेत्री जातका अरु थरहरुसंग वा बाहुन जातसंग पनि कुरा उहि हो, म kinship होईन distance अनुभव गर्छु । र यो psychological scheme ( “clan” as the fundamental unit of kinship) सबै जातजातीमा लागु हुन्छ । यसको significance  र यसलाई deny नगर्ने model के होला ? मेरो presentation को उद्देश्य त्यही हुनेछ ।

2. Nepe’s opposition and own model

स्याङ्जाली र याक्थुङ बन्धुले मेरो model पनि नदेखि, अलिकति प्राज्ञिक कौतुहलता समेत नजनाई, आँखा चिम्लेर dismiss गरेको देख्दा आश्चर्य पनि लाग्यो, दु:ख पनि लाग्यो । स्याङ्जाली र याक्थुङ बन्धुको model कस्तो हो त्यो जान्न पाए, मलाई उचित उत्तर दिन सजिलो हुन्थ्यो । तपाईहरुले चाहनुभएको मोडेल अनुसारको map छ भने पाम् । कुनै particular scholar को मोडेल वा बहस हो तपाईहरुले चाहेको भने त्यो उल्लेख गरिदिनुभए पनि हुन्छ, म त्यसै अनुसार उत्तर दिन कोशिस गर्नेछु ।

मेरो मोडेलको परिचय दिनु अगाडी मैले ethnic federalism प्रति जुन विमती जनाएको छु त्यो खास कुन चाही मोडेलको विरुद्ध हो भन्ने बताउन जरुरी छ । त्यो एकदमै महत्वपूर्ण पक्ष छ है ।

मेरो प्रतिवाद गरेको मोडेल हो – regionally imposed mono-ethnicism.

र मेरो प्रतिवादको आधार दुईटा छ:

एक, नेपालको हरेक region (माओवादी लगायत जातीय संघियतावादीहरुले identify गरेकाहरु) multiethnic छ । त्यसैले त्यहाँ एक जातीलाई “राजा-जाती” र बाँकीलाई “रैति-जाती” घोषणा गर्ने काम अनुचित र दुष्परिणाम निम्त्याउने हुन्छ भन्ने मेरो देखाई ।

दुई, कुनै पनि region लाई माथि भनेजस्तै जबर्जस्ती र कृत्रिम तरीकाले mono-ethnicization गर्नुको साटो अहिले जेजस्तो heterogeneity छ त्यसलाई जस्ताको तस्तै राखी, जस्ताको तस्तै पहिचानको मान्यता र सम्मान दिई (local level मा) र केन्द्रमा सर्वजातिय र सर्वसामुहिक inclusion हुने प्रावधान र ढाँचाको मुलुक निर्माण गर्नु superior alternative हुनेछ ।

जस्ताको तस्तै स्थानिय पहिचान भनेको के हो भने जुन टोल, जुन गल्ली, जुन गाउँ-समुह (जहासम्म continuously फैलिएको छ त्यहाँसम्म ) मा जुन जुन जातीहरु वसोवास गर्दछन् त्यही त्यही अनुसार स्थानियवासीहरुले आफ्नो चाहना अनुसार लोकतान्त्रिक विधी र मान्यताद्वारा निर्णय गर्ने ।

तलको आंशिक नक्सा जहाँ गाविस स्तरमा 50% भन्दा बसोबास भएको जातिय समुह देखाईएको छ, त्यसबाट मेरो बुँदा बुझ्न सजिलो होला:

 

 

 

मेरो मोडेलको स्थानिय प्रारुप त्यही हो । क्षेत्रिय प्रारुपको हकमा, मैले केही वैकल्पिक ढाँचा राखेको छु- तर सबैको मुख्य बुँदा के हो भने यो जातिय-निरपेक्ष र सिमित भूमिका भएको हुनुपर्छ । र केन्द्रलाई मैले सर्वसांस्कृतिक सर्वसमावेसी पहिचानको रुपमा ढाल्नुपर्छ भनेको छु । सर्वसांस्कृतिक सर्वसमावेसी बनाउनका लगि पुराना खस-संस्कृति-प्रधान पहिचान-निर्माण बदल्ने केही कठीन निर्णयहरु गर्नुपर्ने हुन्छ भन्ने मेरो विचार हो ।

मैले यी कुराहरु वाशिङ्टनको कार्यक्रममा आंशिक व्याख्या गर्न पाएको थिएँ, तर मेरो presentation material मा भने त्यो संक्षिप्त र अव्याख्यित रुपमा थियो ।

साझामा यो कुराकानीको फाईदा के भयो भने उक्त मोडेलको व्याख्या गर्नु जरुरी रहेछ भन्ने बुझें । San Francisco मा कोशिस गर्नेछु ।

सबैलाई स्वागत र यहाँ comment गर्ने Newlynew, Crazy Love, KisneKale, Lakhe, Sambhu, Syanjali Magar, Bob Marley र yakthung_laje लाई धन्यवाद !

 

Nepe      

 

No matter what federalism based on ethnicity is a bad idea. Politics based on ethnicity/religion/race will lead to more violence in Nepal. I would have thought that's a common sense regardless of what ethnicity you belong to. But common sense is not all that common, Iguess.

I think this guy is the honest person. I also believe that federalism is a grand design for Sikkimization.

www.dainikee.com

संघीय प्रणालीमा गए देश सिक्किमीकरण हुन्छ

संघीयता विरोधी एक मात्र पात्रः चित्रबहादुर केसी

काठमाडौं, २ जेठ (दैनिकी)

संविधानसभाको निर्वाचन भएको एक वर्ष बितिसकेको छ। संविधानसभाबाट चुनिएर आएका प्रतिनिधिको मुख्य काम भनेको नयाँ संविधान निर्माण गर्नु हो। साथै मुलुकलाई संघीय राज्य बनाउनु, माओवादी लडाकूको समायोजन र पुनर्स्थापना गर्नु पनि सरकार र संविधानसभाको अर्को महत्वपूर्ण कार्य हो। संविधानसभामा रहेका २४ दलमध्ये एउटा यस्तो पार्टी छ जसले संघीयताका विरोध जारी राखेको छ, त्यो हो राष्ट्रिय जनमोर्चा। मुलुक संघीयतामा गए सिक्कीमिकरण हुने भन्दै उसले संघीयता विरुद्ध आन्दोलन सुरु गरेको छ भने संविधानसभा मै रहेका केही दलले तत्काल संघीय राज्य घोषणाको माग गरेका छन्। संघीयता विरुद्धका एक पात्र हुन् सभासद् एवं राष्ट्रिय जनमोर्चाका अध्यक्ष चित्रबहादुर केसी।
संघीयता र यसबाट पर्ने असरका बारेमा दैनिकीका लागि बलराम पाण्डेले राजमोका अध्यक्ष केसीसँग गरेको कुराकानी

दैनिकी : यहाँ एक संघीयता विरोधी एकल पात्र, संघीयताका लागि मुलुकमा अहिले भइरहेको आन्दोलनलाई कसरी लिनुभएको छ?
केसी : हामी संविधानसभा भित्र एउटा पार्टीमात्र हो, संघीयता विरोधी। त्यहाँ भित्र रहेका २३ दलभित्र ठूलो संख्यामा संघीयता विरोधी सभासद्हरु नै छन्। उनीहरुलाई भोट दिने कार्यकर्ता पनि ठूलो संख्यामा संघीयता विरोधी छन्। नेपालमा ठूलो संख्यामा जनता संघीयता विरोधी छन्।

दैनिकी : तर तपाईले भनेका व्यक्तिहरु त संघीयताका लागि आन्दोलनमा छन् नि?
केसीः केही सीमित मान्छेले जानेर/नजानेर संघीयतामा गएपछि परिवर्तन र समस्या समाधान हुन्छ भनेर भ्रमवस त्यस्तो काम गरेका हुन्। जसले संघीयताबाट मुलुकले भोग्ने परिणामका बारेमा जानेकाले जुन–घामझै देखेका छन्, संघीयताले मुलुक कस्तो बनाउँछ भन्ने। त्यसैले संघीय प्रणालीमा गए देश सिक्किमीकरण हुन्छ। संघीय प्रणालीमा जानु भनेको देशलाई खत्तम पार्नु हो। विघटन र खत्तम पार्नु हो।

दैनिकीः अब मुलुक संघीयतामा जाने निश्चित भइसक्यो भनेपछि तपाईको विचारमा अब नेपाल सिक्कीमिकरण तर्फ जान लागेको हो त?
केसीः निश्चित रुपमा दलहरुले बेलैमा होस पुर्‍याएनन् भन अब मुलुक सिक्कीमिकरण हुन्छ, मुलुक विभाजित पनि हुन्छ। नेपालमा संघीयता राज्य निर्माणका लागि पूर्वाधार नै छैन।

दैनिकी : संघीयताको मुद्धा संविधानसभामा प्रस्तुत हुँदा यहाँहरुले के गर्नुहुन्छ?
केसीः त्यसको लागि हामीले तयारी गर्दैछौं। नयाँ संविधानमा ब्यवस्था गर्ने बेलामा हामीले विरोधका कार्यक्रम पनि सार्वजनिक गर्नेछौ।

दैनिकीः प्रसंग बदलौ, तपाईहरुले सरकारलाई समर्थन गरेर पनि सरकारमा सहभागी नहुने निर्णय गर्नुभो किन?
केसीः नेपालमा कति पार्टी छन् ती सबै सरकारमा सहभागी हुनुपर्छ भन्ने छैन। तर माओवादीले सरकार छाडेपछि मुलुक सरकारविहीन अवस्थामा रहन नदिन पनि एमाले कांग्रेसको पहलमा गठन हुन लागेको सरकारलाई समर्थन गरेको हो। विगतमा एमाले र कांग्रेसका पनि चरित्र थाहा हँुदा हँुदै पनि समर्थन गर्नुपरेको छ। यी पनि अवसरवादी छन् आफ्ना महत्वाकांक्षा पूरा गर्न यिनले पनि राष्ट्रियतालाई तिलाञ्जलि दिन पछि पर्दैनन्। तर विकल्प नभएकाले पनि सरकारलाई समर्थन गर्नुपरेको हो। नयाँ संविधान निर्माण गर्ने सर्तका साथ समर्थन गरेका हौं। यिनको चरित्र नेपाली जनताले देखेकै छन् त्यसैले यिनीहरु नेपाली जनतासँग डराउनुपर्छ।

दैनिकी : तपाईले समर्थन गरेको सरकारले त पूर्णता नपाउँदैदेखि टिकाटिप्पणी गर्न थाले नि?
केसीः टिकाटिप्पणी हुँदैमा सरकार ढलिहाल्न सक्दैन। किनकी यो सरकारको विकल्प छैन। सरकारमा सहभागी दलले गाइजात्रा प्रदर्शन गर्न थालिसकेका छन्, तर जस्ता भए पनि विदेशबाट ल्याएर प्रधानमन्त्री बनाउन नमिल्ने हुदा पनि यसको विकल्प छैन।